请教一手牌

清都山水郎

3.3+R MTT1000多人参赛，108名money。打到剩下90人左右时，我的筹码10万多一点，排在20多名。盲注1500/3000preflop UTG（18万筹码）raise 3.5 BB, fold到我，我在小盲拿到TT。两种选择，3bet到10BB左右，或者call。这名选手刚刚换到我这桌，形象不明，考虑到来自于UTG的raise，我决定稳妥一点，简单call。flop AJ7彩虹, 我check，他也check。（考虑他很有可能是AK,AQ之类的牌）turn 6，我bet 1万，他call。（他的check让我觉得他应该是中小对子，我的牌力应该领先。只下一万是怕他慢打AK或者是暗三，如果被反加，我就准备fold）river 7，我check，他bet 3万，我很痛苦地跟。亮牌，他是78。我输了一个大pot。总结：在MTT中后期，如果自己的筹码不错，拿到TT,JJ是很尴尬的事情，既不敢preflop把底池做得太大，又不甘心放手。按照结果来推论，当然preflop应该3bet，flop应该bet big。但是面对筹码多过自己，又是来自UTG的加注，TT并不是那么强。flop出来AJ之后，我check是因为UTG很有可能是AK,AQ之类的牌。我已经准备check-fold。他的check，让我觉得他可能是中小对子，我的牌应该领先，所以turn出来blank之后，我选择了下注来测试他的牌力，他在flop的check有可能是在慢玩暗三，或许也有慢玩AK的可能。他没有反加，只是跟注，让我更加相信他是99之类的牌。rive出来另一个7之后，我如果下注，遭遇到反加会很头痛，所以我选择了check，希望showdown。他这时候下注3万，很像是一个value bet，但是我想了想，如果他有7，他会用什么样的牌在UTG的位置raise 3.5BB呢？A7 suited有可能，但是如果他有A，flop到两对，即使flop check设下陷阱，那么turn也应该会raise我了。同样77，JJ这样的牌也都会在turn上面raise我。我想他可能想利用这张7来吓跑我。所以我选择了call。最后看到他是78，我还是比较惊讶的。从结果看，这手牌不管是preflop或者是flop，我都有很多打法可以打跑他。但是在preflop和flop，我无论如何都没法把78这样的牌放在他的range里面。从结果反推，这手牌从preflop到river我每一个步骤都处理错误。请教大家，如果是你们，这手牌会怎么打？请大家给点意见，谢谢。

moriarty

i dunt think u got a plan preflop. in around 20k preflop pot, we could easily get at least 30k involved in later bet. if i were u , i rather spend 30k now to get the info i need.1. preflop: u should 3 bet like u said. it doesnt matter u know him or not. by 3 betting, u get infomation, he would probably push all in with hands like ak, aq, or high pair. by calling, u get nothing but ur own assumption.2. flop check is ok. but turn bet is horrible. again, small bet gets u no info at all. j could call u, 7 could call u. low pair could call u as well. u should bet or over bet the pot. knock out the junky fishing hands. he cant call u without an ace.

清都山水郎

thanks for your kind reply.ya, i agree that my preflop action might be a little bit weak. playing TT out of position leads to the bad result.but on turn, if i overbet, i would be committed either he calls or shove.i was in pretty safe area of the tournament at that moment.it is highly possible that he could slow play a monster hand by raising preflop and checking flop.i was tend to fold if i got raised on turn.

RichZhu

我觉得翻牌前跟牌没有问题，翻拍圈过牌也没问题，转牌下注小了。当时的低池有两万8左右了吧？下注1万感觉上你自己的范围就太宽了，对手跟注比较容易，从对手的跟注得到的信息有限，河牌没位置还是很难处理。我觉得下注1万5-1万8比较合适，这样甚至可能打跑QJ之类的。如果对方跟注，你河牌就可以check/fold了。

moriarty

it sounds to me that u r 50% give up preflop and 100% surrendered on the flop. why u bother calling preflop then? hope to get lucky to hit a set? that is kamikaze poker.3bet the preflop, i cant see his raise here with 78. if he folds, u won right there. if he call, what hands he give u there? AK, AQ or high pair, right? if he push back, u fold as ur highest chance is 50%.k, he called with no push back, both check on flop. info:could we take off the possibility of ak,aq or high pair? we may but there's still risk. at this point, wut does he think i have? slow play AK or high pair lower than A which get scared by A on the flop or a set of jack. (let's assume all 3 chances are equal in his mind) His check obviously matches the preflop info we get. turn, i bet 80% of pot-48k. 66% of the time, He cant call u even with just an Ace! Can he call u with a 7 only like in real life when u only bet 10k? i doubt it. unless he is playing kamikaze poker. when betting, always think wut hand ur opponent gave u instead of what u really hold. sometimes, this will make u fear nothing when making a scary bet.

Howard

从结果反推，这手牌从preflop到river我每一个步骤都处理错误。清都山水郎 发表于 2010-11-8 18:18若明知对手是8-7，当然是打得每一步都错了。但事实上绝无可能知道他的牌。就现场你所得知的信息推断出来的对方的range来判断，我倒认为每一步你打得的都很有道理。preflop： TT对UTG大筹码，无位置，你有30+BB，很尴尬，平跟很正常。Flop：抱着check-fold的心态Turn：想不到他也check，先下注试探。他可能是KK/QQ之类可能fold呢。又或者是KQ，QT之类call。River： check-call也算对，他KQs之类miss的牌也算不少可商榷的turn打法Rich已经提到了，Turn可以多下注一点，争取把对方中不溜的牌都打跑。但是Turn如果打不跑的话，river就要check-fold为基本宗旨。这样可确保输给对方monster较少，bluff赶走对方一部分中等牌，但暴露于对方的call turn w Draw，Bluff River。反过来你的打法bet small turn，check-call river则是输给对方moster较多，赶不走对方的中等牌跟他拼大小，但对手若river听牌未成你可从他bluff中获利。

清都山水郎

嗯，turn上打得太软了，bet太弱，暴露了自己semi bluff的意图。谢谢各位的回复。

清都山水郎

turn上面下注2/3应该是个更好的选择，turn上如果也check，那么即使对手在river没有hit，他也会bet把我打跑。postlfop技术实在是有待提高。这种低买入的MTT，只有FT的奖金比较高，12-70名差的并不是很多，应该打得更积极凶悍一点。

ydx2008

推理是合理的，但老按常理去打的肯定都是低手，弱手，当你还剩10几个BB的时候敢用2，4去跟然后赢个大锅的人也见过不少，我从来不认为他们是低手，同样敢前面7，8 3BET的人当然也很难对付的，别人变的时候你按常规去想，自然会出错了。

sui64

PRE-FLOP干吗不3BET呢，让翻牌之后的游戏复杂了许多，看来最大的问题就是在此